251031 - 31Oct25 session 25-44
A very quiet session - mostly banter, though a substantial discussion was held on the topic of EPC data
Meeting Summary:
Oct 31, 2025 01:55 PM London ID: 897 5877 7706
Quick recap
The group explored volunteer engagement in parish councils and discussed fascinating discoveries about hoverflies as pollinators, while examining bird migration patterns and environmental concerns. Technical discussions ended the conversation, focusing on challenges with analyzing EPC reports and data upload issues with Parish Online.
Next steps
Summary
Website Tuition and Insect Discoveries
Graham and Chris scheduled a meeting for Monday, November 3rd at 10:30 to discuss website tuition. John and Graham discussed a successful outcome with Somerset and a potential opportunity with Stephen Drury advocating for data export to Parish Online on November 20th. They also talked about the challenges with importing maps into Parish Online and the impact of climate change on insect populations, including the discovery of mosquitoes in Iceland. Graham mentioned that hoverflies are the second greatest pollinating insect after bees, and shared an interesting experiment involving hoverflies traveling between the UK and Scandinavia via North Sea oil platforms.
Volunteer Engagement and Environmental Insights
The group discussed volunteer engagement in parish councils, noting that interactive and nature-focused activities effectively attract participants. They explored the surprising role of hoverflies as pollinators, discovered through research on oil rigs, and discussed bird migration patterns, highlighting the complexity and mysteries still surrounding these phenomena. The conversation also touched on the challenges of balancing fossil fuel use with environmental concerns, though no specific decisions or actions were outlined.
EPC Data Analysis Challenges
The group discussed challenges with analyzing EPC (Energy Performance Certificate) reports, where Tristram explained that while the full database is available, extracting specific data fields for analysis is difficult due to inconsistent formatting across different software systems used by report providers. Graham offered to investigate if the data could be standardized through database analysis or AI, while Chris suggested exploring solar panel data as a separate layer outside the EPC reports. The conversation ended with technical discussions about software bugs and data upload issues with XMAP, where Graham reported being unable to upload any data to his account.
Chat:
00:29:06 Graham Stoddart-Stones: John, re our earlier discussion, the second pollinator is hoverfly, not horsefly - I erred in the name!
Audio-transcript:
42 00:05:33.420 --> 00:05:34.650 Chris Edwards: Hello, Joel.
43 00:05:35.050 --> 00:05:36.530 John Roberts: Good afternoon, everybody.
44 00:05:36.750 --> 00:05:37.730 Chris Edwards: Good afternoon.
45 00:05:39.110 --> 00:05:41.200 Graham Stoddart-Stones: John, how very nice to see you.
46 00:05:41.730 --> 00:05:42.700 John Roberts: Hello, Graham.
47 00:05:50.400 --> 00:05:57.269 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Now, in our regular people today, Stuart is off interviewing, gardeners, I think.
48 00:05:57.620 --> 00:05:58.300 Chris Edwards: Woo!
49 00:05:58.300 --> 00:06:00.790 Graham Stoddart-Stones: So, we shouldn't be seeing him.
50 00:06:01.320 --> 00:06:07.369 Graham Stoddart-Stones: And we have some new people who've certainly registered to join us, but whether they will or not is a different matter.
51 00:06:13.670 --> 00:06:17.489 Graham Stoddart-Stones: I can see that both of you have arrived brimming with questions.
52 00:06:19.800 --> 00:06:20.490 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Oops.
53 00:06:21.460 --> 00:06:22.070 John Roberts: Nope.
54 00:06:23.100 --> 00:06:24.300 John Roberts: Is he having a bus…
55 00:06:24.960 --> 00:06:27.190 Chris Edwards: Sorry, go on. Sorry, John, carry on.
56 00:06:27.490 --> 00:06:28.060 John Roberts: Nope.
57 00:06:28.170 --> 00:06:32.830 John Roberts: I thought we had a good result with, through Adam.
58 00:06:33.530 --> 00:06:34.570 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Didn't be just…
59 00:06:34.570 --> 00:06:36.969 John Roberts: with Somerset, that worked out okay.
60 00:06:37.500 --> 00:06:45.149 Graham Stoddart-Stones: I went to, as it happens, the next day after last week… last Saturday, I met, Stephen Drury.
61 00:06:45.180 --> 00:06:47.669 John Roberts: Who is the guy that Adam mentioned?
62 00:06:48.190 --> 00:06:48.670 John Roberts: Yeah.
63 00:06:48.670 --> 00:06:59.759 Graham Stoddart-Stones: And, he was, flabbergasted and excited about Parish Online, and says that in November the 20th, he will be advocating
64 00:06:59.940 --> 00:07:04.030 Graham Stoddart-Stones: for all of the data to be exported to Paris Online.
65 00:07:04.130 --> 00:07:05.689 Graham Stoddart-Stones: So we'll see where that goes.
66 00:07:06.120 --> 00:07:21.950 Graham Stoddart-Stones: But he certainly got an earful from me about biodiversity, and an earful from Andrew about the local nature recovery strategy, because it all depends on maps, and none of the maps that
67 00:07:22.400 --> 00:07:27.439 Graham Stoddart-Stones: are in the strategy document, are importable into Cache online at the moment.
68 00:07:27.910 --> 00:07:30.309 John Roberts: No, that was the original question.
69 00:07:30.310 --> 00:07:31.020 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Exactly.
70 00:07:31.500 --> 00:07:33.230 John Roberts: Hopefully we'll get somewhere.
71 00:07:33.640 --> 00:07:40.129 John Roberts: The Danish study that I pointed you towards was… is to do with climate change.
72 00:07:41.180 --> 00:07:46.630 John Roberts: Cause what they're looking at is… The insects they're getting now.
73 00:07:47.170 --> 00:07:50.099 John Roberts: And the insects they used to get that aren't there now.
74 00:07:50.590 --> 00:07:51.190 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Yes.
75 00:07:51.190 --> 00:07:54.219 John Roberts: A direct result of climate change.
76 00:07:54.500 --> 00:08:00.649 John Roberts: To the fact that they're now… they've now discovered mosquitoes on Iceland.
77 00:08:02.120 --> 00:08:02.600 Graham Stoddart-Stones: And that.
78 00:08:02.600 --> 00:08:03.449 John Roberts: That's mute.
79 00:08:03.950 --> 00:08:06.880 John Roberts: And that is new, they've never had mosquitoes there before.
80 00:08:06.880 --> 00:08:07.860 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Oh my.
81 00:08:09.130 --> 00:08:12.929 John Roberts: And to be fair, that can only be down to climate change.
82 00:08:15.940 --> 00:08:17.020 Graham Stoddart-Stones: So…
83 00:08:22.220 --> 00:08:27.579 Graham Stoddart-Stones: If I talk to you about pollination, what do you think is the greatest pollinating insect?
84 00:08:28.370 --> 00:08:31.360 John Roberts: Most people will say bees.
85 00:08:31.360 --> 00:08:31.970 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Yep.
86 00:08:32.159 --> 00:08:37.969 John Roberts: But, I think… I'm not… I'm guessing now, but I'm gonna say probably moths.
87 00:08:39.090 --> 00:08:45.370 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Actually, it's… horseflies is number two. The bees are number one.
88 00:08:45.370 --> 00:08:45.960 John Roberts: Hmm.
89 00:08:45.960 --> 00:08:51.569 Graham Stoddart-Stones: But they've discovered that, in a very interesting experiment, I thought, that they
90 00:08:51.680 --> 00:08:54.859 Graham Stoddart-Stones: gave a bunch of horseflies in the
91 00:08:55.210 --> 00:09:01.779 Graham Stoddart-Stones: A particular poem, which they'd sort of doctored with a dye or something would show up.
92 00:09:01.910 --> 00:09:09.470 Graham Stoddart-Stones: And they let them loose, and they found exactly the same, pollen in Scandinavia.
93 00:09:09.580 --> 00:09:19.469 Graham Stoddart-Stones: And the reason that the horseflies had been able to transfer that far was because they stopped on North Sea oil platforms on the way.
94 00:09:19.790 --> 00:09:20.180 John Roberts: Yeah.
95 00:09:20.180 --> 00:09:26.660 Graham Stoddart-Stones: And they caught them, and they found them there, you know, with this peculiar colored pollen on them, and they thought, well, that just goes to show.
96 00:09:27.470 --> 00:09:32.010 John Roberts: Yeah, they find… they find the same thing with the birds now, with the platforms.
97 00:09:32.500 --> 00:09:36.000 John Roberts: But they'll end up with, they'll get…
98 00:09:36.000 --> 00:09:37.329 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Agreeing, buds.
99 00:09:37.330 --> 00:09:40.289 John Roberts: Yeah, they find them covered in birds, and then the next day they're gone.
100 00:09:41.000 --> 00:09:42.580 Chris Edwards: They're just having to rest.
101 00:09:42.950 --> 00:09:43.710 Chris Edwards: Mmm.
102 00:09:44.590 --> 00:09:51.420 John Roberts: But, yeah, it was… it just intrigued me, was all these cars driving around with these nets on their route.
103 00:09:52.190 --> 00:09:55.809 Graham Stoddart-Stones: That was fascinating, yeah, I agree, absolutely. It looked marvelous.
104 00:09:56.110 --> 00:10:00.070 John Roberts: And the results they got from it. It just shows that if you make it
105 00:10:01.150 --> 00:10:10.940 John Roberts: enjoyable enough or worthwhile, then the public will participate. If you bombard them with facts and figures and nothing else, they tend to switch off.
106 00:10:10.940 --> 00:10:12.020 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Absolutely.
107 00:10:12.020 --> 00:10:16.590 John Roberts: But, yeah, anyway, I mean, that rant over on that one.
108 00:10:16.590 --> 00:10:31.880 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Well, no, but, I do a banter session on Wednesdays in, the aid of climate change and so forth, and lots of people ask every time, how do parish councils manage to get volunteers up and running?
109 00:10:32.160 --> 00:10:39.389 John Roberts: And the answer is always the way that you suggest. You've got to ask them what it is they want to do, and then say, we'll go and do it.
110 00:10:39.910 --> 00:10:42.810 Graham Stoddart-Stones: But if you tell them what needs to be done, they won't.
111 00:10:43.510 --> 00:10:51.660 John Roberts: No, they won't, and you've got to pitch it as… it's got to be interesting, interactive,
112 00:10:51.810 --> 00:10:54.230 John Roberts: This is one of the problems when people join
113 00:10:54.670 --> 00:10:56.999 John Roberts: Younger people join a parish council.
114 00:10:57.100 --> 00:11:00.520 John Roberts: They think they're going to be so involved in everything that's going on.
115 00:11:00.620 --> 00:11:03.179 John Roberts: Then they find, no, it's not like that.
116 00:11:03.290 --> 00:11:04.710 Graham Stoddart-Stones: And they drift away.
117 00:11:05.690 --> 00:11:09.209 John Roberts: So… There was somebody the other day that said.
118 00:11:09.630 --> 00:11:10.810 Graham Stoddart-Stones: the two…
119 00:11:11.000 --> 00:11:21.250 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Catch things that will always get volunteers, apparently, are anything to do with nature, that always brings people out of the woodwork, and, much to my surprise, waste management.
120 00:11:22.690 --> 00:11:27.629 Graham Stoddart-Stones: So, I was not aware that people would do anything they could, I suppose, to clear up the,
121 00:11:28.120 --> 00:11:30.559 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Litter pollution they find around.
122 00:11:30.560 --> 00:11:36.899 John Roberts: I'll back that. We've got a thing in the village called Stowe Green Spaces, which started out as a group litter picking.
123 00:11:37.500 --> 00:11:40.109 John Roberts: And over the years, it's grown.
124 00:11:40.880 --> 00:11:46.269 John Roberts: And they now do grass cutting, tree planting, anything to do with nature.
125 00:11:46.270 --> 00:11:46.720 Chris Edwards: Hmm.
126 00:11:46.720 --> 00:11:47.170 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Right.
127 00:11:47.170 --> 00:11:49.959 John Roberts: And that started with volunteers, just litter picking.
128 00:11:50.940 --> 00:11:51.810 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Interesting.
129 00:11:52.190 --> 00:11:56.549 John Roberts: And they're a bit like an ALMO of the parish council, because they're doing a lot of the work that
130 00:11:56.990 --> 00:11:59.219 John Roberts: You know, we would like to do and can.
131 00:12:00.080 --> 00:12:06.070 tristram cary: Yeah, that's good, interesting. We've got a very active litter picking group, but we haven't, branched out into tree planting.
132 00:12:06.070 --> 00:12:06.520 John Roberts: Excuse me.
133 00:12:06.520 --> 00:12:07.200 tristram cary: Love stuff.
134 00:12:08.620 --> 00:12:14.140 Chris Edwards: John, you, you were talking about, oil rigs,
135 00:12:14.400 --> 00:12:19.499 Chris Edwards: it's a stepping stone for flies and birds and so on. Yeah.
136 00:12:19.700 --> 00:12:27.350 Chris Edwards: Do you think we should send multiple email messages to Ed Miliband, saying, let's have more oil rigs, please?
137 00:12:28.350 --> 00:12:31.210 Chris Edwards: Yeah, because he's trying to… he's trying to cut them all out.
138 00:12:31.210 --> 00:12:32.619 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Really?
139 00:12:32.620 --> 00:12:37.650 John Roberts: It, it, it's… It's best not start me on that one, Chris.
140 00:12:37.650 --> 00:12:38.210 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Oh, okay.
141 00:12:38.210 --> 00:12:38.910 tristram cary: Oh my god.
142 00:12:38.910 --> 00:12:42.959 John Roberts: You've got to remember, I spent my life teaching people about plastics.
143 00:12:42.960 --> 00:12:44.270 Chris Edwards: Oh, dear.
144 00:12:45.420 --> 00:12:48.960 John Roberts: And… the short answer is, is…
145 00:12:49.660 --> 00:12:53.600 John Roberts: Look at… if they stop drilling for oil completely.
146 00:12:53.790 --> 00:12:57.050 John Roberts: You need to look at everything you're going to lose.
147 00:12:58.250 --> 00:13:00.370 John Roberts: Now, I happen to agree with
148 00:13:00.470 --> 00:13:02.969 John Roberts: Some of their arguments re-fossil fuels.
149 00:13:04.780 --> 00:13:08.700 John Roberts: But you can't just stop oil altogether.
150 00:13:08.930 --> 00:13:11.010 John Roberts: It just will not happen.
151 00:13:11.190 --> 00:13:11.720 Chris Edwards: Nope.
152 00:13:14.330 --> 00:13:24.920 Chris Edwards: Should we bring Tristram in on this? We were talking earlier about, pollinators, and Graham told us that after bees.
153 00:13:25.060 --> 00:13:28.760 Chris Edwards: The second greatest pollinator would be horseflies.
154 00:13:28.980 --> 00:13:30.879 Chris Edwards: Which, which is news to me.
155 00:13:31.270 --> 00:13:31.830 Chris Edwards: And…
156 00:13:31.830 --> 00:13:32.390 tristram cary: That means…
157 00:13:32.390 --> 00:13:40.460 Chris Edwards: They discovered some horseflies on oil rigs, which were sort of a stepping stone on their migratory roots.
158 00:13:40.460 --> 00:13:41.280 tristram cary: Monday.
159 00:13:41.280 --> 00:13:45.109 Chris Edwards: Discovered that, you know, they had pollen on them.
160 00:13:46.460 --> 00:13:50.299 tristram cary: That's extraordinary. I didn't know they migrated at all.
161 00:13:50.570 --> 00:13:51.400 Chris Edwards: No, I didn't know.
162 00:13:51.400 --> 00:13:55.299 Graham Stoddart-Stones: I don't think anyone did it until they, they, they, they, they.
163 00:13:55.580 --> 00:13:56.620 tristram cary: Extraordinary.
164 00:13:56.620 --> 00:14:01.880 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Once they discovered that they were big pollen carriers, then they started giving them,
165 00:14:01.980 --> 00:14:08.069 Graham Stoddart-Stones: pollen that had been, sort of, laced with color or something, so that they could track it, and then they found that
166 00:14:08.310 --> 00:14:17.879 Graham Stoddart-Stones: the, plants in Scandinavia were showing the same pollen, and it was only because the flies had got from one country to the next, and they…
167 00:14:17.880 --> 00:14:18.620 tristram cary: the other rings.
168 00:14:18.620 --> 00:14:21.970 Graham Stoddart-Stones: And yes, they found them on the oil rigs.
169 00:14:22.270 --> 00:14:24.470 tristram cary: Makes you wonder what they did before the other rigs.
170 00:14:24.470 --> 00:14:27.199 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Well, I don't think they exported the oil.
171 00:14:28.060 --> 00:14:28.730 John Roberts: Right?
172 00:14:28.730 --> 00:14:29.780 Graham Stoddart-Stones: And you might… you had…
173 00:14:29.780 --> 00:14:31.149 Chris Edwards: We went by far…
174 00:14:31.150 --> 00:14:34.049 Graham Stoddart-Stones: stayed in the holiday, but they stayed in England.
175 00:14:35.980 --> 00:14:41.209 John Roberts: It's funny because, we were listening to something on the day before yesterday.
176 00:14:41.760 --> 00:14:47.909 John Roberts: And about bird migration, and I was surprised how little they actually know about bird migration.
177 00:14:49.060 --> 00:14:57.310 John Roberts: And they're finding things out. I mean, they still don't really know how birds or why birds migrate.
178 00:14:57.630 --> 00:15:03.020 John Roberts: There was one bird that lives in the northwest of Canada.
179 00:15:04.180 --> 00:15:11.920 John Roberts: And they've now discovered it migrates via, again, via Iceland, to sub-Saharan Africa.
180 00:15:12.770 --> 00:15:17.430 John Roberts: and then back. It actually spends 6 months of the year migrating.
181 00:15:17.620 --> 00:15:18.030 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Wow.
182 00:15:18.030 --> 00:15:20.249 tristram cary: It's quite… it's quite extraordinary.
183 00:15:20.250 --> 00:15:22.729 John Roberts: Yeah, and… I mean, how that could be…
184 00:15:23.310 --> 00:15:28.170 John Roberts: The same bird, or group of birds, live on the other side of Canada.
185 00:15:28.290 --> 00:15:30.579 John Roberts: And they migrate, but they go the other way.
186 00:15:31.810 --> 00:15:32.340 tristram cary: Extraordinary.
187 00:15:32.340 --> 00:15:33.900 Graham Stoddart-Stones: It's mind-blowing, isn't it?
188 00:15:33.900 --> 00:15:38.460 John Roberts: Yeah, it really is, and it's surprising, really, how much we don't know.
189 00:15:38.710 --> 00:15:41.450 Graham Stoddart-Stones: If you look into the stormy petrol.
190 00:15:41.820 --> 00:15:50.530 Graham Stoddart-Stones: That's a very tiny bird, and it goes huge distances over the ocean, and because it's quite happy landing on water, I don't quite know what it feeds on, but…
191 00:15:50.730 --> 00:15:57.299 Graham Stoddart-Stones: It's not so bothered by the fact that it's flying over water, whereas your average land bird is going to have a lot of trouble.
192 00:15:57.960 --> 00:15:59.010 tristram cary: Yeah.
193 00:15:59.140 --> 00:16:05.490 tristram cary: But is it that Swifts? The Swifts don't land at all. They go for 6 months on the wing.
194 00:16:05.700 --> 00:16:06.380 Chris Edwards: Yeah.
195 00:16:06.910 --> 00:16:09.080 Graham Stoddart-Stones: They never land? Oh, but we…
196 00:16:09.080 --> 00:16:14.809 tristram cary: So 6 months, until… until they… no, until while they're migrating. So it's been 6 months.
197 00:16:15.000 --> 00:16:16.370 tristram cary: In the, I mean.
198 00:16:16.370 --> 00:16:19.059 John Roberts: The albatross will only land when it breeds.
199 00:16:19.380 --> 00:16:20.010 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Yes.
200 00:16:20.010 --> 00:16:30.040 tristram cary: Yeah. Yeah, but they're not putting in too much effort, they're sort of gliding, aren't they? But when you… when you look at those sweats, they're bashing away, you know, their wings go at about 100 RPM.
201 00:16:30.890 --> 00:16:32.459 tristram cary: That was one of the points.
202 00:16:32.780 --> 00:16:37.020 John Roberts: program was making is this bird from Canada, it weighs 20 grams.
203 00:16:38.070 --> 00:16:42.460 tristram cary: What they'll say? Yeah, fly… fly… yeah, the bird they were talking about in Canada.
204 00:16:42.460 --> 00:16:46.139 John Roberts: sub-Saharan Africa, they actually weigh an average of 20 grams.
205 00:16:46.950 --> 00:16:49.180 John Roberts: And yet, it's flying those distances.
206 00:16:49.570 --> 00:16:50.390 tristram cary: stroller.
207 00:16:50.750 --> 00:16:54.310 John Roberts: Yeah. That's nothing to do with parish online, though.
208 00:16:56.010 --> 00:16:58.480 Chris Edwards: I can recommend that.
209 00:16:58.480 --> 00:16:59.139 Graham Stoddart-Stones: My.
210 00:16:59.140 --> 00:16:59.700 John Roberts: Yeah.
211 00:16:59.700 --> 00:17:04.560 Chris Edwards: I went… I went to an open day at the Yoe Valley Farm.
212 00:17:04.790 --> 00:17:20.230 Chris Edwards: in Somerset, and they put on a wonderful display of arts and crafts, gardening, implements, and lectures, and I went to the lecture to listen to the author of this book.
213 00:17:20.450 --> 00:17:25.700 Chris Edwards: And she took us around a garden there, which is purely for insects.
214 00:17:26.030 --> 00:17:33.960 Chris Edwards: And she pointed out things which we had never even knew existed, and it was just a wonderful day out.
215 00:17:33.960 --> 00:17:35.319 tristram cary: Good.
216 00:17:35.320 --> 00:17:36.889 Chris Edwards: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
217 00:17:38.620 --> 00:17:43.180 John Roberts: It's not the same as in Yale Valley, the dairy people?
218 00:17:43.730 --> 00:17:47.870 Chris Edwards: Yogurts, butter, cheese, milk, yeah, yeah.
219 00:17:49.200 --> 00:17:51.770 tristram cary: Well, I've got a topic of discussion.
220 00:17:51.770 --> 00:17:53.610 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Excellent. We're all set.
221 00:17:54.100 --> 00:17:56.780 tristram cary: Is this… have we got the full crowd in a show?
222 00:17:56.780 --> 00:18:02.949 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Well, there are two… three newcomers who've signed up, but they haven't actually shown up yet, so…
223 00:18:03.360 --> 00:18:08.510 tristram cary: Okay, so here's my… here's my topic of conversation. EPC… Reports.
224 00:18:08.510 --> 00:18:09.380 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Yes?
225 00:18:09.380 --> 00:18:17.040 tristram cary: Because, you know, we can't, at the moment, download, data extract the full EPC report and run queries on it.
226 00:18:17.960 --> 00:18:18.370 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Yes.
227 00:18:18.370 --> 00:18:34.609 tristram cary: So I've been on to Chris and the team, and he says it's a huge database, and it's too difficult to do all at once. But he then said, if we could work out the specific questions and fields that we wanted to analyze.
228 00:18:34.610 --> 00:18:38.980 tristram cary: Maybe we could download that data, a subset, and work on that.
229 00:18:39.130 --> 00:18:42.669 tristram cary: So I had a look at the… at the EPC reports.
230 00:18:42.800 --> 00:18:51.200 tristram cary: And two things strike me. I mean, there are fields that we definitely would like to know about, like the build form and the property type.
231 00:18:51.430 --> 00:19:09.260 tristram cary: and the, you know, whether it's rented or owned, and the main construct… the data construction, and things like the roof type, I suppose. So there are a few, you know, out of 100 fields, or whatever it is, there probably are 10 or 12 that would be really useful.
232 00:19:09.450 --> 00:19:18.490 tristram cary: multi-glaze proportion, I don't know, that sort of floor… is there under… is there… is it a cavity? Is it a suspended floor or solid, all that stuff.
233 00:19:18.840 --> 00:19:27.419 tristram cary: number of bedrooms, maybe. But then… but so then I started to look at some of these reports, and it then started to worry me that there's… the…
234 00:19:27.500 --> 00:19:39.709 tristram cary: when the inspector fills in the database, a lot of the fields seem to be sort of left open to a description, which, again, would be very difficult to analyze, but some… some are not. So, for instance, when it says.
235 00:19:40.200 --> 00:19:42.890 tristram cary: Glazing type.
236 00:19:43.260 --> 00:19:46.619 tristram cary: One guy's put in double glazing unknown install date.
237 00:19:47.730 --> 00:19:58.829 tristram cary: You know, so that looks like a descriptive field. It's not… it's not picking… it's not picking a value from a drop-down menu, which you'd need to have to make any sense of an automatic data extract.
238 00:19:59.400 --> 00:20:03.819 tristram cary: And so then I… and then I wondered, are… you know, I know there are several
239 00:20:03.820 --> 00:20:21.650 tristram cary: groups, companies that offer software for doing EPC reports, like Elmsthurst is one, and Quidos is another. And I wonder if they've got the same… exactly the same questions, the same drop-down menus, or are we going to run into trouble by finding that the EPC reports just aren't consistent?
240 00:20:22.080 --> 00:20:25.950 tristram cary: So I wondered if anybody could shed any light on… on that topic.
241 00:20:27.580 --> 00:20:28.130 Graham Stoddart-Stones: So…
242 00:20:28.130 --> 00:20:29.749 John Roberts: something I've had a lot to do with.
243 00:20:30.260 --> 00:20:39.630 Graham Stoddart-Stones: I'm surprised he finds it too big to manage, because I think the whole country is about 5GB, which is ought to be manageable by,
244 00:20:40.110 --> 00:20:43.420 Graham Stoddart-Stones: SQL, and you just run a report on that, but…
245 00:20:43.420 --> 00:20:48.839 tristram cary: Yeah, I think… I think it's, again, it's the quality. I think it's the issue of the reports are not very…
246 00:20:49.290 --> 00:20:50.330 tristram cary: uniform.
247 00:20:50.540 --> 00:20:52.000 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Oh.
248 00:20:52.560 --> 00:20:55.099 Graham Stoddart-Stones: But doesn't it all come from the same database that the government.
249 00:20:55.100 --> 00:21:01.719 tristram cary: No, I don't think it does, because they're different… because there are different companies that do… that have different software to do the EPC reports.
250 00:21:02.520 --> 00:21:11.040 tristram cary: I'm slightly guessing, I'm slightly guessing, but I've… so I've looked… I spent a happy half hour this morning just downloading a few randomly around the country.
251 00:21:11.140 --> 00:21:13.880 tristram cary: And they're not, you know, they're not very uniform.
252 00:21:13.880 --> 00:21:18.010 Graham Stoddart-Stones: But you didn't take the one from the government. There is one central database that the government.
253 00:21:18.010 --> 00:21:19.829 tristram cary: No, no, no, I still… ugh.
254 00:21:21.520 --> 00:21:22.040 tristram cary: Nice.
255 00:21:22.040 --> 00:21:29.580 Graham Stoddart-Stones: It'll obviously be exactly the same format all the way through. And that's a big file, it's a 5GB file, but you can, you know, it's downloadable.
256 00:21:29.700 --> 00:21:30.689 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Well, it is, but…
257 00:21:30.690 --> 00:21:46.600 tristram cary: Does that necessarily… does that necessarily follow? Because different companies have different software. Maybe the date… they say some may, for instance, have a drop-down menu to constrain what you can put in, others don't. And quite a lot of the entries do seem to be very descriptive.
258 00:21:46.830 --> 00:21:50.519 Graham Stoddart-Stones: I see what you're saying, yeah, okay. But then, for what you're…
259 00:21:50.520 --> 00:22:00.369 tristram cary: So you can download… you can download the database, which we've done, you know, we do have all that data, it's in… all that data is in Paris Online, but what you can't… you can't data extract from it.
260 00:22:01.950 --> 00:22:19.789 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Well, you can if you do as you're suggesting, and then come up with a few fields that we want, but… and particularly the ones that are likely to have been done with the drop-down list, they can be yeses or nos, aren't they? Yeah. Well, no, no, no, no, not at all. Not yeses or nos. They could be, for instance, property type. It could be flat, house.
261 00:22:20.370 --> 00:22:20.910 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Yes.
262 00:22:20.910 --> 00:22:26.989 tristram cary: whatever, end of terrace, and I'm just looking at the window's description, you know, or, sorry, floor.
263 00:22:27.120 --> 00:22:30.810 tristram cary: And one of them says suspended, no insulation assumed.
264 00:22:31.490 --> 00:22:36.580 Graham Stoddart-Stones: So I don't suppose that comes from a drop-down menu, that looks like it's just… he's just filled that in.
265 00:22:36.900 --> 00:22:41.670 tristram cary: And a hot water description from main system, no cylinder thermostat.
266 00:22:41.960 --> 00:22:49.430 tristram cary: That's not… that's not going to be analyzable in a… unless you use… unless, of course, you use an AI engine to…
267 00:22:49.740 --> 00:22:51.639 tristram cary: Work out what it's trying to tell you.
268 00:22:57.300 --> 00:23:07.190 Graham Stoddart-Stones: But I think the important things that people want to know, really, are what certificate category are they? You know, are they A, B, C, D, E, or F?
269 00:23:07.640 --> 00:23:16.089 Graham Stoddart-Stones: And… I'm just looking at the data that they're storing at the moment. Things like…
270 00:23:16.400 --> 00:23:20.980 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Heating cost current and heating cost potential are all just straight digits.
271 00:23:22.440 --> 00:23:24.980 tristram cary: Yeah, yes, I know, I saw that.
272 00:23:25.310 --> 00:23:27.289 tristram cary: Same thing, it's another, another question.
273 00:23:27.290 --> 00:23:29.409 Graham Stoddart-Stones: I'm just looking at the ones that give you…
274 00:23:29.530 --> 00:23:37.319 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Yeah, a hot water description I can certainly see could be very confusing, because you could get anything in there, and the floor description could also be…
275 00:23:37.540 --> 00:23:39.899 Graham Stoddart-Stones: You don't know if it should drop down on this or not, but…
276 00:23:39.900 --> 00:23:40.540 tristram cary: Yo.
277 00:23:41.750 --> 00:23:51.649 tristram cary: So I've actually contacted somebody to ask who knows about it, who works… who used to work for Quidos, and he's going to… he's going to try to get me some data about
278 00:23:52.030 --> 00:24:05.989 tristram cary: what… what are drop-downs, and, you know, ask some people who really know. But I was… I was interested, because if we're gonna… if we're gonna do this, some way to crack it, and if we could start with some simple… some very simple flags, like property type and date of construction.
279 00:24:05.990 --> 00:24:07.070 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Absolutely, yes.
280 00:24:07.070 --> 00:24:10.849 tristram cary: And that would be… we could start to get a bit more purchase on the data.
281 00:24:11.470 --> 00:24:16.950 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Well, I've got the down… I'll download the data and take a look and see if there's a way of,
282 00:24:17.630 --> 00:24:20.909 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Taking what people have put and converting it to a standard.
283 00:24:21.240 --> 00:24:22.300 tristram cary: Probably true.
284 00:24:22.300 --> 00:24:23.030 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Yep.
285 00:24:23.030 --> 00:24:24.869 tristram cary: How would you possibly do that?
286 00:24:25.690 --> 00:24:30.660 Graham Stoddart-Stones: What you could do is, in a database, you could just find all,
287 00:24:31.000 --> 00:24:33.090 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Variations on a theme.
288 00:24:33.900 --> 00:24:35.039 Graham Stoddart-Stones: I think you're right.
289 00:24:35.440 --> 00:24:38.809 Graham Stoddart-Stones: even easier for AI to work on it. That'd be a very good…
290 00:24:39.180 --> 00:24:39.960 tristram cary: Yeah.
291 00:24:39.960 --> 00:25:00.230 Graham Stoddart-Stones: You'd have to… what you'd have to do is go trolling through the big database and come up with the variations of describing the same thing, and then say the word that you want the AI to use. So if you come across semi-detached residents, with hyphens between semi and detached, then that is the same as semi and detached with no hyphen.
292 00:25:02.350 --> 00:25:04.040 Graham Stoddart-Stones: And just make it the same.
293 00:25:04.040 --> 00:25:05.000 tristram cary: Yeah.
294 00:25:07.000 --> 00:25:17.829 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Because I agree with you, when you get to starting to, you know, descriptions like flooring and so forth, but do we need to know that for the exercise that we're doing here in Paris Online?
295 00:25:18.690 --> 00:25:28.240 tristram cary: Well, yes, because the idea… what we're trying to do in HART is… is get each parish to analyze its CPCs and come up with things like what proportion are
296 00:25:28.790 --> 00:25:33.300 tristram cary: below D… below C, rather, what proportion
297 00:25:33.830 --> 00:25:39.030 tristram cary: You know, have, have, loft insulation, what proportion have double glazing?
298 00:25:39.140 --> 00:25:42.269 tristram cary: And to try to… to try to prioritize
299 00:25:42.360 --> 00:25:53.610 tristram cary: action, and then what Hart wants to do is amalgamate the parishes together, and then offer retrofit companies to say, look, there's a clutch of properties here, which
300 00:25:53.660 --> 00:26:04.650 tristram cary: could benefit a lot from campus wall installation, or whatever it is, and we'll give you… if you go and do them in that, you know, we'll promote you as a trusted partner, and…
301 00:26:04.650 --> 00:26:05.080 Graham Stoddart-Stones: You can.
302 00:26:05.080 --> 00:26:07.529 tristram cary: offer a discount. To do that sort of thing.
303 00:26:07.530 --> 00:26:15.070 Graham Stoddart-Stones: We're doing that mostly with just the strange… the straightforward energy rating, because knew anybody with D or below is worth looking at.
304 00:26:16.830 --> 00:26:19.139 tristram cary: Well, we're keen to go do a bit more.
305 00:26:19.310 --> 00:26:23.530 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Well, then my question to you is, is what is the bit more that you want?
306 00:26:23.850 --> 00:26:30.240 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Well, that's what I'm sort of asking. Well, you're waiting for your answer, I take it, from your computer.
307 00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:45.979 tristram cary: We've only just… this is… this is all only three days old. We had the meeting on Tuesday this week. So we've got… I've got as far as starting to look at it. I've got as far as asking somebody about the different software, whether these… whether this data would be consistent across the country, or at least a parish or a district.
308 00:26:45.980 --> 00:26:57.830 tristram cary: And I'm… and I'm looking at the reports to say, you know, what would be the most useful. And I think there are… there are data fields, like, you know, potential number of habitable royal enhance that there's
309 00:26:58.650 --> 00:27:06.199 tristram cary: low energy heating, for instance, is just a number, whether that's a percentage or no. But the thing you were saying, the,
310 00:27:07.350 --> 00:27:08.260 tristram cary: What were you even do?
311 00:27:08.260 --> 00:27:09.720 Graham Stoddart-Stones: The floor description.
312 00:27:09.720 --> 00:27:13.530 tristram cary: No, this thing, these things that were just numbers.
313 00:27:13.530 --> 00:27:15.419 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Oh, yes, well, that's all the things.
314 00:27:15.420 --> 00:27:33.740 tristram cary: I don't know what those mean. Current energy efficient, 64, 71, 30, 69, I don't know what that means, but that could be, you know, if that's scientifically calculated, you might say, well, actually, that's a really useful, due to that efficiency, tells you where to aim. You should deal with the most inefficient.
315 00:27:34.200 --> 00:27:35.670 tristram cary: But I didn't know what they mean.
316 00:27:36.280 --> 00:27:47.899 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Well, but I'm sure it's quite easy to find out from somebody who's doing this all the time. Like, as you say, there's a lighting cost current, a lighting cost potential, a heating cost current, a heating cost potential, they're all straightforward numbers.
317 00:27:48.180 --> 00:27:56.080 tristram cary: Yeah, but I have been told that the quality of those numbers is highly, can be highly variable. Different inspectors say they put their finger in the air and say 61.
318 00:27:56.080 --> 00:28:00.250 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Yeah, but just because the data is patchy doesn't mean to say not use it.
319 00:28:00.250 --> 00:28:00.989 tristram cary: No, exactly.
320 00:28:00.990 --> 00:28:06.400 Graham Stoddart-Stones: You bring some human being in to intervene at some point.
321 00:28:06.590 --> 00:28:07.350 tristram cary: Yep.
322 00:28:08.810 --> 00:28:14.379 Chris Edwards: Wistrom, I'd like to ask, what about solar panels for residences?
323 00:28:16.590 --> 00:28:17.959 Chris Edwards: Well, that'll be honest.
324 00:28:17.960 --> 00:28:20.180 tristram cary: They're not in the EPC, are they?
325 00:28:20.710 --> 00:28:24.170 Chris Edwards: Well, I don't know, so I'll have to ask you about that, so…
326 00:28:24.170 --> 00:28:36.940 tristram cary: I don't… well, I've been looking this morning, I don't think I've seen any… any reference to solar panels. So I think the EPC is all about… it's not about energy generation, it seems to me it's all about energy conservation.
327 00:28:37.110 --> 00:28:37.820 Chris Edwards: Okay.
328 00:28:37.980 --> 00:28:38.759 tristram cary: I think.
329 00:28:40.310 --> 00:28:46.270 Chris Edwards: Don't we… could we have another layer, not within the EPCs, but somewhere else?
330 00:28:46.270 --> 00:28:48.510 tristram cary: Yes, absolutely, that's being done.
331 00:28:48.890 --> 00:28:49.470 Chris Edwards: Good.
332 00:28:49.680 --> 00:29:03.750 tristram cary: Are you shocked, but I've got another parish next to me who's taking a big interest. Actually, David Morgan-Jones, who I think you know from this meeting. Oh, yes. He's very interested, so he knows where the solar panels are, and we've got another… we've got another look at potential.
333 00:29:03.940 --> 00:29:12.120 tristram cary: So we want to look at the potential of roofs, and then cross off it, you know, where solar panel's already been installed, to get a better handle on it.
334 00:29:12.420 --> 00:29:13.519 Chris Edwards: Okay, thank you.
335 00:29:14.530 --> 00:29:17.329 Graham Stoddart-Stones: How you doing, Alastair? Just seen you pop in, hello.
336 00:29:17.330 --> 00:29:19.069 Alastair Boyd: Good afternoon, how are you?
337 00:29:19.680 --> 00:29:23.649 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Well, we're discussing almost anything, except Paris Online, given the…
338 00:29:25.920 --> 00:29:27.790 Alastair Boyd: That's what makes it interesting.
339 00:29:27.790 --> 00:29:28.950 John Roberts: Exactly.
340 00:29:28.950 --> 00:29:33.569 Alastair Boyd: Nice to finally get hold of you. The buttons wouldn't work this afternoon.
341 00:29:34.030 --> 00:29:34.970 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Oh, right.
342 00:29:36.530 --> 00:29:37.980 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Well,
343 00:29:38.470 --> 00:29:45.270 Graham Stoddart-Stones: David Morgan Jones has suggested that it's more important to deal with the person who knocked on his door than it is to come and talk to us.
344 00:29:45.900 --> 00:29:46.410 Alastair Boyd: That doesn't.
345 00:29:46.410 --> 00:29:47.170 Graham Stoddart-Stones: What's up?
346 00:29:47.170 --> 00:29:47.710 tristram cary: Talking.
347 00:29:48.010 --> 00:29:52.559 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Yeah, I… but that's… I told him that some people just seize on any excuse.
348 00:29:53.020 --> 00:29:55.669 John Roberts: That will be dependent on who it is knocking on his door, but…
349 00:29:55.670 --> 00:29:56.739 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Of course.
350 00:30:05.020 --> 00:30:22.569 tristram cary: Well, anybody… anyway, just to finish that discussion, if anybody has any good ideas and wants to look at the EPC reports, I think that would be interesting, because I think that would be a project we could… once we get it going in heart, we could maybe offer that as a sort of template and get feedback so that it covers a wider area.
351 00:30:23.750 --> 00:30:31.680 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Well, I think Chris's idea is also useful. You and you were going… you did quite a lot of work on… which are south-facing roofs which don't have…
352 00:30:31.680 --> 00:30:33.690 tristram cary: Solar panels on them.
353 00:30:33.800 --> 00:30:36.740 Graham Stoddart-Stones: That was working with a satellite image company, was it?
354 00:30:38.430 --> 00:30:38.880 Chris Edwards: CG.
355 00:30:38.880 --> 00:30:39.739 tristram cary: Union.
356 00:30:39.740 --> 00:30:45.149 Graham Stoddart-Stones: done slides in presentations? Yes, yes, no, it wasn't, it was… it was an air… it was a…
357 00:30:45.730 --> 00:30:46.629 Graham Stoddart-Stones: And, air photography.
358 00:30:46.630 --> 00:30:51.559 tristram cary: I think it was… I think it was APGB we used.
359 00:30:51.560 --> 00:30:52.290 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Okay.
360 00:30:53.930 --> 00:31:00.200 Graham Stoddart-Stones: But it strikes me as a sort of thing, if we can get some funding, it would be really worthwhile. You're turning that into a…
361 00:31:00.200 --> 00:31:01.710 tristram cary: be useful there.
362 00:31:01.860 --> 00:31:05.219 tristram cary: Well, that's the big if, but yes, that's what we're aiming to do.
363 00:31:12.780 --> 00:31:13.670 Graham Stoddart-Stones: You…
364 00:31:14.040 --> 00:31:28.030 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Well, the problem with XMAP at the moment is turning into a larger one than I thought. I thought, well, if I'm not able to upload the data, let me ask the support people if they will. And Chris has come back and said, we can't upload any data either, which I think is mind-boggling.
365 00:31:29.020 --> 00:31:30.440 tristram cary: Well, into your account?
366 00:31:30.870 --> 00:31:37.050 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Well, I asked it to be into my account, yes, but I can't believe you can't upload any data.
367 00:31:37.470 --> 00:31:38.220 Graham Stoddart-Stones: What's this?
368 00:31:38.220 --> 00:31:38.610 tristram cary: 11.
369 00:31:38.610 --> 00:31:40.320 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Not my account, it's very weird.
370 00:31:40.690 --> 00:31:42.760 tristram cary: I haven't seen that response.
371 00:31:42.760 --> 00:31:45.069 Graham Stoddart-Stones: No, well, it came to you, didn't?
372 00:31:45.480 --> 00:31:47.590 tristram cary: Oh, I thought you were copying me on the listener.
373 00:31:47.590 --> 00:31:51.770 Graham Stoddart-Stones: I have been, but I don't know whether Chris has been on. Let me just go and check what he's got.
374 00:32:01.590 --> 00:32:04.109 Graham Stoddart-Stones: No, it didn't involve you, I'll send it to you.
375 00:32:04.510 --> 00:32:05.470 tristram cary: Yeah, please.
376 00:32:07.440 --> 00:32:10.659 tristram cary: Because my… my talk to Chris, I've got
377 00:32:11.980 --> 00:32:21.429 tristram cary: I think he thinks it's a soluble problem. They're just nervous about making… fixing old bug in case it causes new contagion.
378 00:32:24.260 --> 00:32:32.180 Graham Stoddart-Stones: I've completely failed to understand what the issue is, because how did it suddenly arise? What's suddenly changed?
379 00:32:32.520 --> 00:32:35.950 tristram cary: Well, that's the thing about software bugs, they're very mysterious.
380 00:32:37.050 --> 00:32:38.170 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Yeah, it's true.
381 00:32:38.170 --> 00:32:43.860 tristram cary: No, seriously, you know, if these things arise, you can't, for the life of you, work out what the hell's happened.
382 00:32:44.040 --> 00:32:47.529 Graham Stoddart-Stones: How did we manage to go this far without spotting it before?
383 00:32:47.530 --> 00:32:51.819 tristram cary: And they're very… they're always usually edge cases that are sort of unusual.
384 00:32:51.990 --> 00:32:57.710 tristram cary: Something's happened. It's caused a… glitch.
385 00:32:58.860 --> 00:33:13.939 Graham Stoddart-Stones: When I was running an IT support company, we had the issue, which was really a Microsoft problem, that they've got so many people using so many different versions of hardware, the versions of Microsoft, Windows, and all the rest of it, that
386 00:33:14.090 --> 00:33:26.780 Graham Stoddart-Stones: The bugs keep popping up because people insist on doing things that the software programmer had no expectation that any human would be that daft. But lo and behold, they can be.
387 00:33:26.780 --> 00:33:29.240 tristram cary: It's known as the Stoddot Stones Effect.
388 00:33:31.100 --> 00:33:31.880 Graham Stoddart-Stones: See?
389 00:33:31.880 --> 00:33:36.690 tristram cary: It's probably because you're using your weird Linux computer.
390 00:33:37.770 --> 00:33:47.539 Graham Stoddart-Stones: So, when we were at Dartmouth, Youngstown, the, junior Division Officer of Hawk Division, in the days when I was there, was Robin Marks.
391 00:33:48.070 --> 00:34:01.329 Graham Stoddart-Stones: And Robin Marks later went to work for the, Military Pension Society, and my father, who'd been a Royal Air Force officer, wrote in and said, you know, I have a question, please, could you help me out?
392 00:34:01.330 --> 00:34:15.780 Graham Stoddart-Stones: And Robin Marks wrote back and said… said, it's such an unusual name that you must be the father of Robin and Graham. He said, and when they were both at Dartmouth together, we coined the phrase, you can always tell a lot of stones, but not a lot.
393 00:34:18.850 --> 00:34:22.349 Graham Stoddart-Stones: And, so I thought that was very unkind.
394 00:34:26.480 --> 00:34:28.429 Graham Stoddart-Stones: My father thought it was hilarious.
395 00:34:29.989 --> 00:34:33.299 John Roberts: it's a problem with software faults. You can spend
396 00:34:33.489 --> 00:34:37.989 John Roberts: Hours, days, weeks, and never actually get to the bottom of them.
397 00:34:39.549 --> 00:34:43.969 John Roberts: And, some of the automotive and medical machines I worked with were
398 00:34:44.419 --> 00:34:47.309 John Roberts: You know, they were millions of pounds per machine.
399 00:34:47.759 --> 00:34:50.729 John Roberts: And… They would go wrong.
400 00:34:50.829 --> 00:34:56.389 John Roberts: and I would go in, And I would spend half a day tinkering.
401 00:34:56.499 --> 00:34:59.059 John Roberts: when in actual fact, all I actually did
402 00:34:59.309 --> 00:35:04.759 John Roberts: Was switch the machine off, pull the fuse, wait 10 minutes, and switch it all back on again.
403 00:35:06.030 --> 00:35:08.600 John Roberts: But I couldn't let the customer know that's what I'd done.
404 00:35:09.910 --> 00:35:12.370 Graham Stoddart-Stones: But you had solved the problem thereby.
405 00:35:12.630 --> 00:35:13.230 John Roberts: Yay!
406 00:35:13.720 --> 00:35:14.310 Graham Stoddart-Stones: I'm tired!
407 00:35:14.870 --> 00:35:20.310 John Roberts: Time and time again, it would… it would happen, and… It was… the machine…
408 00:35:20.440 --> 00:35:27.569 John Roberts: Basically, people trying to program the machine and getting it wrong, and the easiest way to do it was to kill the machine and then it start again.
409 00:35:28.150 --> 00:35:29.350 Alastair Boyd: Indeed.
410 00:35:29.350 --> 00:35:31.099 Graham Stoddart-Stones: One of the earliest,
411 00:35:31.150 --> 00:35:48.659 Graham Stoddart-Stones: clients that we had, and certainly the largest, was the Wellcome Foundation, you know, the pharmaceutical people. Yeah. And they had a big mainframe which wasn't able to cope with the workload, and they asked us for our solution, and we said, switch to the PC version of the software, and then you'll have
412 00:35:48.660 --> 00:35:55.150 Graham Stoddart-Stones: the problem will go away. But they decided that, no, they were going to go for the mainframe version, and what they needed was more memory.
413 00:35:55.410 --> 00:36:01.680 Graham Stoddart-Stones: So, they wrote to IBM and said, how much would it cost to have more memory? And they said, £5,000.
414 00:36:02.020 --> 00:36:10.180 Graham Stoddart-Stones: And, I watched the technician come in to fix the new memory in place, and he opened the cabinet door, flicked a switch, and shut it again, and that was it.
415 00:36:10.400 --> 00:36:22.059 Graham Stoddart-Stones: The systems all came with the memory built in, and then you got what you paid for, and if you wanted more, you paid a lot more, and the guy came and just toggled it into place. It was extraordinary. 5,000 quid.
416 00:36:22.740 --> 00:36:27.830 John Roberts: With our machines, the full programs were always loaded into the machine.
417 00:36:27.830 --> 00:36:28.530 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Right.
418 00:36:28.630 --> 00:36:29.560 John Roberts: But the customer…
419 00:36:29.560 --> 00:36:32.500 Alastair Boyd: only had access to what they'd paid for. Yeah.
420 00:36:32.500 --> 00:36:37.459 John Roberts: I've changed my mind I want something else. Yeah, like you said, it's just a flick of a switch.
421 00:36:38.500 --> 00:36:39.149 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Excuse me.
422 00:36:39.150 --> 00:36:39.830 tristram cary: That's great.
423 00:36:39.830 --> 00:36:40.470 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Sweet.
424 00:36:40.470 --> 00:36:41.440 tristram cary: Very sensible.
425 00:36:41.440 --> 00:36:42.010 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Yep.
426 00:36:43.570 --> 00:36:47.390 Alastair Boyd: A bunch of, useful advice I had when I started
427 00:36:47.510 --> 00:36:50.580 Alastair Boyd: Then I found the computers, which was an old Apple IIe.
428 00:36:50.980 --> 00:36:56.999 Alastair Boyd: And that was the, salesman when I rang him up one night about 10 o'clock, I said, well, it stopped again.
429 00:36:57.000 --> 00:37:03.860 Graham Stoddart-Stones: He says, well, I've told you before, you're the master, you just switch the switch off.
430 00:37:05.580 --> 00:37:06.749 Graham Stoddart-Stones: And he would.
431 00:37:06.750 --> 00:37:11.550 Alastair Boyd: Oh, yeah. Many times has it done that. I still do it even with a modern tackle.
432 00:37:12.080 --> 00:37:15.869 Alastair Boyd: If it won't reset itself, you sure you really have got problems.
433 00:37:15.870 --> 00:37:24.940 Graham Stoddart-Stones: I came across a huge, novelty for me the other day, which really surprised me, was we've had, fiber installed as our Ethernet supply.
434 00:37:25.070 --> 00:37:29.660 Graham Stoddart-Stones: And it stopped working, or it was just not working as well as it should.
435 00:37:29.840 --> 00:37:43.089 Graham Stoddart-Stones: And I called up the help desk, and they were very helpful, and they said, you can try this, you can try that, and we're coming in remotely, and we can take a look. Oh, we see it's arriving at full speed at your wall mount, but it's going very slowly inside.
436 00:37:43.290 --> 00:37:57.549 Graham Stoddart-Stones: So, the solution, they said, would you please unplug the ethernet cable from the router, and then plug it back in again? And just that was all it took to clear it. So, I've got no idea what the cause of that was, but I was amazed at the solution.
437 00:37:59.800 --> 00:38:03.800 Alastair Boyd: Well, we had, ours… we only had Ayton for 3 weeks before it stopped.
438 00:38:04.130 --> 00:38:09.519 Alastair Boyd: And the second engineer found that the cable had been eaten further up the road by squirrels.
439 00:38:10.010 --> 00:38:18.140 Alastair Boyd: And we would have been off for 3 weeks waiting for them, because I had to get the proper order to shut the gate… the road.
440 00:38:18.410 --> 00:38:28.059 Alastair Boyd: And, I bought another system which a Thai-powered London home worker uses, so it cuts in when the other one stops.
441 00:38:28.640 --> 00:38:33.159 Alastair Boyd: It's just very annoying to have £25 a month that we shouldn't need to have to pay, but there we are.
442 00:38:34.890 --> 00:38:36.090 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Probably jiggy.
443 00:38:40.490 --> 00:38:49.439 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Now, I did promise anybody that was looking to do anything this week to discuss B for bookmarks, but I don't suppose anyone here needs bookmarks, do they?
444 00:38:51.160 --> 00:38:52.270 Chris Edwards: Occasionally.
445 00:38:55.000 --> 00:38:58.969 John Roberts: Yeah, it's something I've used, like Chris just said, occasionally.
446 00:38:59.210 --> 00:38:59.850 Graham Stoddart-Stones: But…
447 00:39:00.110 --> 00:39:02.409 John Roberts: Not very often. I have to admit.
448 00:39:04.690 --> 00:39:05.240 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Oh.
449 00:39:05.430 --> 00:39:11.720 Graham Stoddart-Stones: In the interest of everyone saving time and everything else, I shall decline to show you how bookmarks work.
450 00:39:15.160 --> 00:39:20.579 Graham Stoddart-Stones: does anybody have any questions at all that they want to extend today's session?
451 00:39:21.480 --> 00:39:23.630 John Roberts: I'm sorry, no, not this week.
452 00:39:24.690 --> 00:39:26.139 tristram cary: No, that's alright.
453 00:39:26.140 --> 00:39:35.440 Graham Stoddart-Stones: But rather than take up everyone's time, I'll declare the meeting shut. I'm sorry, Alistair, if you're going to be… your afternoon enjoyment has been quite cut short.
454 00:39:36.180 --> 00:39:37.080 tristram cary: I mean…
455 00:39:37.080 --> 00:39:41.309 Graham Stoddart-Stones: Having fought to get into it. Yeah, it's very sad, isn't it?
456 00:39:43.190 --> 00:39:44.259 tristram cary: Thank you very much.
457 00:39:44.260 --> 00:39:47.510 John Roberts: Thank you, take care, have a great day. Bye-bye.
458 00:39:47.510 --> 00:39:47.950 Chris Edwards: Sure.
459 00:39:47.950 --> 00:39:48.680 Alastair Boyd: Right.
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